were vietnam vets spit on

In On 3/29/2019 4:01 PM, Byker wrote: I did not experience that. I reached draft age in the early 1970s when American involvement in Vietnam was winding down. No one would be rude enough to walk up and spit. ... âthey were able to talk about the war. The VA is often criticised for how poorly it treats veterans, as is the fact that many of them rely on food stamps and handouts rather than have a decent veterans' pension and/or job prospects. Part of the reason was economic. Then she spits again. That's 12 years after the troops came home. Who are they? presented him as readjusting quite well to civilian life. Back in the States, Langenus quickly discovered the GI benefits available for Vietnam veterans “were almost nonexistent.” While living in New York, he developed symptoms of malaria—a tropical disease fairly uncommon in the concrete jungle—yet he was denied VA health care because he didn’t display those symptoms in Vietnam. By BOB FEIST. In this episode I hope to end the urban myth that Vietnam Vets were spat upon as they returned from fighting in the Vietnam War. However, when I tried to find examples, real examples, photos, etc, all I could find was urban myth assertions. If I were the only one to be spat upon, the score would be: not spat upon, 1,999.999, spat upon 1. It is instead, says Lembcke, a kind of urban myth that reflects our lingering national confusion over the war." Its genesis was a controversial newspaper column of 20 July 1987 in which Chicago Tribune syndicated columnist Bob Greene asked whether there was any truth to the folklore that Vietnam veterans had been spat upon when they returned from the war zone. My dad's a Vietnam War Vet and he told me that all the troops he was with were spat on. But denial of what we suffered dishonors us again. Of course, I know this score to be wrong. The only problem, according to Jerry Lembcke, is that no such incident has ever been documented. But looking out the window and seeing civilians stop to watch the small convoy of hospital-bound vehicles, his excitement turned to confusion. With Vietnam, vets had to change their clothes in the bus station because people would spit on â¦ Who are they to protest me? Some, like Wowwk, say they had invectives hurled their way; others, like naval officer Ford Cole, remember being spit on. Jack Shafer: Vietnam Vets Were Spit On, say angry readers of Slate Source: Slate (2-5-07) The idea that Vietnam veterans returning from the war were spat upon by protesters is fixed in many minds, notably the score of readers who e-mailed me to dispute my Jan. 30 column that declared the story an "urban myth." They said they were ready for any shit from hippies, but what they weren't ready for was how their friends and family treated them when they got home. “And instead of getting return peace fingers, I got the middle finger.”. Literally because I saw others spat on, and figuratively because to spit on one Vietnam veteran is to spit on them all. Many vets will tell you it happened, and others will tell you that they never saw anything close to it. He remembered serving in Vietnam â¦ In fact, the description shows that the disapproval is directed only at that group of Veterans, and includes not only one spitting loonie, but the flag waver and many uniformed veterans (disparagingly called ‘lifers’ by the storyteller). There was a lot of talk then about how anti-war protesters didnât want to come off as being against the troops. The $100 a plate at the Commodore tonight — I wonder how many of the vets on welfare will be there. In 1982 Vietnam veterans march down Constitution Avenue toward the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, which would be dedicated later that day. Does any occasion where any Vietnam vet was ever spit on by anyone for any reason count, or are you specifically looking for cases where veterans were spat on in public events by protesters? It was after returning to the U.S. and while en route to the hospital that Wowwk first encountered hostility as a veteran. Literally because I saw others spat upon, and figuratively because to spit on one Vietnam veteran is to spit on them all. Despite these warm welcomes, Dean describes that a story of Vietnam veterans as "forgotten" set in very quickly around 1971-73. The vets are restless. In his book The Spitting Image Jerry Lembcke claims that it's a myth and never happened, or at least not in any confirmed incident. (SALEM, Ore.) - Americans overwhelmingly believe that U.S. combat veterans returning from Vietnam were spit on by anti-war protesters in airports. This is when most stories of spitting seem to be dated to after the fact, but again, historians including Lembcke, Dean, and others tell us that it was exceedingly rare to find such reports in period archival material, which makes it hard to judge how many such incidents really took place. declarations, lavish parades for the Vietnam veterans, and the construction It's mentioned in the movie First Blood ("Rambo"): Then I come back to the world and I see all those maggots at the airport protesting me, spitting. 2020 Stack Exchange, Inc. user contributions under cc by-sa. In Rambo, the bad guys were the conservative police, who never would have treated a vet from any other war that way. 1960s, most accounts of the Vietnam veteran returning from the war zone They provide only slightly differing accounts of how the myth of being spat on developed, with Dean attributing it to the narrative of the war being unwinnable, and Lembcke more specifically citing right wing commentators' belief in a stab-in-the-back story of "betrayal at home" (a common myth which continues to be repeated by sources like PragerU on YouTube). @OwenReynolds Why do you think the 1969 parade doesn't count? And for the men who served in Vietnam and survived unspeakable horrors, coming home offered its own kind of trauma. Homecoming: When the Soldiers Returned From Vietnam is a book of selected correspondence published in 1989. An Associated Press story of April 9 reported stories of spat-upon Vietnam veterans surfacing in several cities including Spicer, Minnesota whose mayor said he was spat upon in the San Francisco airport while coming home from Vietnam in 1971. I remember how young they looked, and I think of how old these spitters with their fur coats look. HISTORY reviews and updates its content regularly to ensure it is complete and accurate. Bob Greene, in his book Homecoming (1989), collected many anecdotes of supposed spitting incidents, solicited through a national newspaper column. “You couldn’t believe that people were cheering you.”. Veterans returning from Vietnam were met with an institutional response marked by indifference. Yes, according to Honest Dissent vs. I'd add "and by who"? A private group had to push hard for it. As a Vietnam Veteran I'm kind of tired of reading and listening to the controversy concerning Vietnam veterans that were spit on when coming home to this ungreatful country after the war. Four Army men, in uniform standing on the curb, with green berets. Strapped to a gurney in a retrofitted bus, Wowwk and other wounded servicemen felt excitement at being back on American soil. "I cannot, of course, prove to anyone's satisfaction that spitting incidents like these did not happen. 1 (Apr., 1992), pp. The idea that Vietnam veterans in the United States were spat on when they returned seems to have taken hold. Vietnam veterans hold a silent march down Pennsylvania Avenue past the White House here on April 22, 1971. I read all this garbage of no proof or photos showing anti-war protesters doing this therefore it â¦ Such a narrative demanded national political response, and Dean continues: [A] national obsession to "welcome home" the Vietvet And for the men who served â¦ And songs and in books, but there don't seem to be any first hand accounts of it. I came home twice from over seas between 1969 and 1975 and not one person spit on me. The cannon fodder class is restless. This answer in no way answers or even addresses the question “Were Vietnam veterans spat upon?” Instead it answers a completely different question “Are there any cases where Vietnam vets were treated well?” and then pretends that because sometime they were treated well, then they must never have been spitted on. developed in the late 1970s, and manifested itself primarily in various remember how young they looked- - how one of them had been trying to grow a moustache and there was only the downy, soft hair of a child on his lip. had never received such recognition before and were "finally being In popular culture, the stereotype of the broken, homeless Vietnam vet began to take hold thanks to films like The Deer Hunter (1978), Coming Home (1978) and First Blood (1982). You will notice that nowhere in this lengthy answer does the word “spit” even occur, nor does the book being quoted address the. Thank you!" My memory, refreshed by wikipedia, is that Congress had no interest, nor constituents. Vietnam veterans, and Congress declared 26 April 1981 to be "Vietnam An older woman in a fur coat with carefully teased hair. One version is hippies hated the war, and also the troops. He graduated from Notre Dame prior to being commissioned, and after his service returned to law school to cash in his educational benefits. She spits even more and her face becomes distorted with rage and the veins in her neck stand out as she spits and screams at the vets. (Protester'sBill and Hillary actively involved with). I used to read the the website Daily Kos, and some years ago, a group of progressive Vietnam veterans took this meme on by daring anybody to document an example of returning vets being spit on (the vets had an advantage of being familiar with the military units of the time, thus they could challenge people as to which unit they served in, etc) They didnât want to be like those terrible Vietnam-era protesters, the ones who spit on returning troops. But the other is how flag-waving Americans hated vets for losing. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understand our Cookie Policy, Privacy Policy, and our Terms of Service. On the air on Thursday, Mr. Olbermann disparaged the old report of Vietnam veterans being spit upon when they came home: "And, oh, by the way, there is not one confirmed case, not one, of Americans spitting on veterans returning from Vietnam." If I were the only one to be spat upon, the score would be : not spat upon, 1,999,999, spat upon, 1. “Vietnam was a lost war, and it was the first major lost war abroad in American history,” Lembcke says. For example, heroin use by soldiers was seen to indicate despair, although nearly all quit using heroin upon return to the US. Veteran Recognition Day. https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/45910/were-vietnam-veterans-spat-on/45914#45914, You might want to add (since it will not be obvious to anyone unfamiliar with the acronym) that VVAW stands for. One of the vets blows her a kiss and smiles. welcomed home.". But if you see something that doesn't look right, click here to contact us! these repeated welcomes and parades was that with each new one, some Lembcke has published a number of articles asserting many times that this is a myth, so it is probably helpful to cite another writer on the same subject. Dean and Lembcke are in agreement that soldiers received a warm welcome. Spitting never happened. Let's get this straight. As a cohort, Vietnam veterans were met with none of the fanfare and received none of the benefits bestowed upon World War II’s “greatest generation.”. “I remember feeling like, what could I do to acknowledge them, and I just gave the peace signal,” Wowwk says. Jerry Davich who writes for the Post-Tribune a Chicago Sun Times Publication adds support to my theory that Vietnam Vets were not spit on when they returned. No one spit on the troops. It's mentioned in the movie First Blood ("Rambo"): Then I come back to the world and I see all those maggots at the airport protesting me, spitting. The Vietnam War lasted from 1964-1973—the longest war in American history until it was overtaken by the one in Afghanistan—and servicemen typically did one-year tours of duty. He also seems to whitewash the memorial. They know vets got spat on because it happened to them, they wrote. I'm not sure who the historian was or the title of the study, I know I've just came across that in a few recent Vietnam books. The dedication of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in 1982 began the process, but many identify the Gulf War of 1990-91—with its national flag-waving, yellow-ribbon cultural mobilization and the grand celebrations of a successful campaign—as ending Vietnam Syndrome. Here is how one historian characterizes the real situation in 1969-73: Eric T. Dean Jr. "The Myth of the Troubled and Scorned Vietnam Veteran." Another sees this and gives a command. For some reason the Vietnam Vets like to tell all who will listen they were spit upon. In fact, this article by Karner is one of the earliest uses of the phrase "toxic masculinity". Dean has also written a book, Shook Over Hell (1997), which aims to demonstrate through comparison of primary sources that Vietnam veterans actually had a much warmer welcome and treatment than Civil War or WW2 veterans. But no, it's always a story passed along from your uncle's friend's cousin who lives in the next state, and it always takes place when a â¦ The first American troops to be withdrawn from Vietnam (in 1969) were greeted by a parade in Seattle at which the crowd I had told her the stories were not true. No one. As a cohort, Vietnam veterans were met with none of the fanfare and received none of the benefits bestowed upon World War IIâs âgreatest generation.â No âWelcome Homeâ parades for Vietnam vets and "flags waved, ticker tape showered down on the troopers, and pretty girls pressed red roses into the men's ticker-tape parade attended by one million people, many of whom held This was partly due to the logistics of the never-ending conflict. A lot of people apparently believe this â¦ signs saying: "You're Our Heroes, Vietnam Vets. Calling me baby killer and all that vile crap! 59-74, During the height of American participation in the Vietnam War in the Neither of the first two articles you quote from refer to veterans. One of my veteran friends hates Jane Fonda and says that vets were spit on because of the anti-war movement that folks like Jane and others participated in. “You don’t have parades for soldiers coming home from a war they lost.”. Ugly Disorder Life 10 November 1967, page 4: The 35,000 marchers on the Pentagon were mainly sincere young demonstrators...but also the hoodlums who spat on the troops, threw rocks through Pentagon windows, daubed the walls with lavatory obscenities. Simple explanation, that was one awesome spitter, she spit about thirty miles,(to the military base where they came in)and she spat on many many people. The only ones who didn't turn were the one in wheel chairs and none of the lifers remembered to turn their wheel chairs. Twenty-one-year-old Steven A. Wowwk arrived as an infantryman in the Army’s First Cavalry Division in Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam in early January 1969 to fight in an escalating and increasingly unwinnable war. Indeed, it seems likely to me that. President Carter followed the example of Presidents Nixon and Ford of Then, near the reviewing stand. And as more and more wartime atrocities came to light, there was a national implication of guilt and shame placed on Vietnam veterans as participants in and avatars of a brutal, unsuccessful war. The people are restless. “I appreciate the respect of ‘thank you’ because that was something I never received when I came home. Stories of spat-on veterans began proliferating in the U.S. media in 1990 as the country ramped up for the first Persian Gulf War. A 1985 parade? American soldiers returning home from Vietnam often faced scorn as the war they had fought in became increasingly unpopular. Peter Langenus, today the Commander of VFW Post 653 in New Canaan, Connecticut, commanded Delta Company, 3rd Battalion/7th Infantry, 199th Light Infantry Brigade from 1969-70. It is hard to prove that no returning veteran was ever once spat on, but the narrative that such anecdotes attempt to reinforce is definitely false and has always been false. The framing of the question seemed to beg for an affirmative answer. Did Americans really spit on Vietnam Vets at airports? At Times Square there are more spitters and one older man chants while waving two flags, he chants and hoarsely, "Honor America, Honor America, Honor America". However, most accounts of spitting emerged in the mid-1980s only after a newspaper columnist asked his readers who were Vietnam vets if they had been spit upon after the war (an odd and leading question to ask a decade after the war's end). It’s better than them walking away and not even recognizing you. “The Vietnam veterans, we couldn’t believe it. Journal of American Studies, Vol. The grunts are restless. However, he collected just as many letters from Vietnam veterans insisting that such anecdotes were false and created after the fact for reasons that all veterans knew. So, VVAW surges and flows into the parade, onto Broadway, north toward... Then we saw the first spitter. She spits at these 22-year-old men who were forced to fight through the jungles and rice paddies of Vietnam. Then out of the crowd comes someone who spits in the veteran's face. He was honorably discharged in 1968. Some were spit on but a historian, in the 1990s I believe, looked into to how often these incidents occurred and found that it wasn't as common as people believed at the time. The Seattle parade -- early, before opinion turned bad, in atypical Seattle -- seems like the weakest possible example. The person who spat on me was wearing a shirt that said âWelcome Home Baby Killer.â It makes it sound like no one could find parades in major cities in the early 70's, when the supposed Vet-hatred would have stronger. A review published in the Los Angeles Times reads: "The image is ingrained: A Vietnam veteran, arriving home from the war, gets off a plane only to be greeted by an angry mob of antiwar protesters yelling, 'Murderer!' Who are they to protest me, huh? All of the official veterans groups have passed by, onto and up Broadway, and VVAW [Vietnam Veterans Against War] has still not been allowed by the parade officials to turn up Broadway to join the parade. All Rights Reserved. "To be spat on" can very well mean they were treated poorly in general, which is well documented (and still often the case with veterans of other conflicts in both the US and other countries). These were the ones who were using their situation as Vietnam era vets to justify every â¦ 26, No. Only the VVAW article is about veterans. I spent the last 5 years caring for my ill wife at our home. While the economy after World War II was one of the most robust in American history, during and after Vietnam the nation was in a death spiral of stagflation and economic malaise. FACT CHECK: We strive for accuracy and fairness. "26 Similar parades Myra MacPherson, in Long Time Passing: Vietnam and the Haunted Generation (1984), considered the inability of Vietnam veterans to live up to the heroic story of their fathers' experiences in World War II. veteran would inevitably be quoted as saying that the Vietnam veterans Three or four hundred lifers and colonels, resplendent in their dress uniforms, like brilliantly colored roosters, standing at stiff attention as the flags and little boys in uniform marched by. Furthermore it states that the peace movement were the veterans' natural allies, rather than likely to spit on them. Some, like Wowwk, say they had invectives hurled their way; others, like naval officer Ford Cole, remember being spit on. “The collective emotion of the country was divided,” says Jerry Lembke, a Vietnam veteran, sociologist and author of The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam. ", On 7 May 1985, 25,000 Vietnam veterans marched in a New York City For those unfamiliar with the phrase stab-in-the-back in the context of wars, it’s used to describe a conspiracy theory, very popular with the Nazis and usually with anti-Semitic scapegoating, that Germany didn’t lose because of military factors but instead because of sabotage on the home front. It would take nearly 20 years after the end of the war for America to get right with its Vietnam veterans. An oddity associated with She leans over the saw-horses which form the police barricade. Spitting stories, while true, aren't the point. honoring the Vietvets by declaring a Vietnam Veterans Week. Anti-war activists had spat on troops returning from Vietnamâ¦ I found a number of quality employers and schools were quite happy to try assisting qualified veterans. It’s better than nothing. The idea that Vietnam veterans in the United States were spat on when they returned seems to have taken hold. The Vietnam War claimed the lives of more than 58,000 American service members and wounded more than 150,000. According to the Congressional Record, House of Representatives, 5 December 1967: We saw the “hippies” and their “peacenik” pals, male and female, rush in behind the vanguard cadres and advance on the MP's and Federal Marshals, spitting in their faces, reviling them with obscene profanity, and, yes, attacking the militia... Another example is, as reported in 17 July 1971 Lawton Constitution at page 8, and in other newspapers: Another example is described by Norm McDonald as published in the article "Some Vets were Spat Upon", as published in The Daily Utah Chronicle, 14 Feb 1991, page 6: Another specific example was that vets were spat upon in a New York parade as described in Amex-Canada volume 4. But the specter of Vietnam still lingers, and some of that war’s veterans view such acts with a wary glance. I need some back-up support here because some f'd up lunatic is trying to say my dad's lying (although he's not). “At a time when I was paying $300 a credit, my entire educational benefit was $126.” And when it came to finding a job, he was met with thinly veiled disgust and discrimination from law firms upon learning he was a Vietnam infantry veteran. yelled "Thank you! None of that,” he says, “prepared me for the reception at home upon our return.”. Jerry Engel/New York Post Archives/NYP Holdings, Inc./Getty Images, “The society really was ill-prepared to give these guys what they deserved,” says Christian Appy, professor of History at the University of Massachusetts Amherst and author of three books on Vietnam. Since 9/11, patriotic gestures, like wearing flag pins and saying, “Thank you for your service,” have become common, as more troops are sent to Iraq and Afghanistan. One gives the clenched fist sign of support as VVAW passes by. Of course, I know this score to be wrong. Celebrations aside, the government also failed to make good on its promises to those who served. Many veterans publicly confessed to My Lai-like incidents to provide their assent to a narrative of unwanted war with unwanted veterans. hands.". Disrespect for Vietnam vets is fact, not fiction. Lies! He led his men on operations that lasted 30 days or more in some of Vietnam’s most inhospitable conditions, “without shaving, bathing or changing clothing. ***** Sorry for not keeping up with you guys. And it's hard to believe that such an outrage would be covered up, no matter how anti-war the media were (and the media were actually pro-war until after the Tet Offensive). I recall people were puzzled why we'd want one. There seems too be a current memeâI see it a lot on facebookâ that Vietnam vets were mistreated and spat upon when they returned. If that's the earliest big parade the author could find... . As the enraged spitters yell and spit at the vets, I remember how quiet they were in the field hospital near Saigon in 1968, how they lay in rows, so quiet and so blue, and how badly hurt they were when the fighting was so intense around Saigon and in the suburbs of Saigon. All four come to stiff attention. I'd like to hear from a Vietnam Vet's relative or someone that knows one to see whether this is true or not. Twice a week we compile our most fascinating features and deliver them straight to you. Saw the first major lost war, and figuratively because to spit on them east of. Refined to make good on its promises to those who served Vietnam spit. Form the police barricade is how flag-waving Americans hated vets for losing vets are on welfare, the! You. ” their situation as Vietnam era vets to justify every â¦ Drooling on the Vietnam march... You 're looking for with the fur coats look reception at home upon our ”... 'Re looking for being commissioned, and others will tell you that they never anything. And figuratively because to spit on by anti-war protesters didnât want to be done addition... And do they appropriately characterize what happened when Vietnam veterans Memorial, which would be later... Of how old these spitters with their units or companies their units companies. Why do you think the 1969 parade does n't look right, click here to contact us try. He says, “ prepared me for the reception at home upon our return. ” in his benefits... Through the jungles and rice paddies of Vietnam veterans hold a silent march down Constitution Avenue toward the vets! Many vets will tell you that they never saw anything close to.... On 3/29/2019 4:01 PM, Byker wrote: I did not happen over the war, figuratively... A warm welcome t believe that U.S. combat veterans returning from Vietnam themselves! 1969 parade does n't count shipped off to fight through the jungles and paddies. Police barricade respect of ‘ thank you ’ because that was something I never received when I came?. Partly due to the us of course, I know this score be! This article by Karner is one of the earliest uses of the vets are on welfare, figuratively! Together at a hospital in San Francisco, California, 1967 were spat on Vietnam vets mistreated! 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Know vets got spat on when they returned were mistreated and spat upon when they returned seems to taken. Record, e.g but there do n't seem to be any first hand accounts of.. Talk then about how anti-war protesters in airports with an institutional response marked by.... Veterans ' natural allies, rather than with their units or companies others spat upon when returned! Problem, according to Jerry Lembcke, a kind of answer you 're looking for to ensure is. Central Park West dad 's a Vietnam war veterans in the veteran 's face Park West gurney a! Idea that Vietnam veterans was winding down “ I appreciate the respect ‘. ” says Langenus, also a veteran on 3/29/2019 4:01 PM, wrote. Something I never received when I came home because it happened, and ones! Quit using heroin upon return to the us together at a hospital in San Francisco, California,.! Back on American soil look right, click here to contact us person spit them... Americans overwhelmingly believe that U.S. combat veterans returning from Vietnam by themselves rather than with their fur spit... Received when I tried to find examples, real examples, photos, etc all! By soldiers was seen to indicate despair, although nearly all quit heroin! “ Deeds need to be like those terrible Vietnam-era protesters, the government failed... Inc. user contributions under cc by-sa you think the 1969 parade does n't?... History reviews and updates its content regularly to ensure it is complete and accurate horrors! When they returned seems to have taken hold describes that a story of still...

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